Jimmy Wales: Buy the ‘benevolent universe’ idea.
By Mike Hodgkinson | Published: 2025-10-28 15:00:00 | Source: Big Think
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Jimmy Donal Wells (born August 7, 1966), also known as Jimbo Wells, is an American internet entrepreneur and former financial trader.
This opening sentence is lifted wholesale from Wikipedia, the revolutionary online encyclopedia that elevated Wells to the status of cultural legend. As he explains in his new book The Seven Rules of Trust: A Blueprint for Building Things That LastThe climb was not smooth.
Wikipedia launched on January 15, 2001, and by 2006 it had been subjected to severe ridicule. The Colbert Report Like a misinformation train set to be derailed by the meddling demons of human nature – but Wells’ “pathological optimist” refused to admit that his adventure, and by extension the entire concept, was doomed to failure.
His instincts were, to say the least, solid. The English Wikipedia is now approximately 93 times larger Encyclopedia Britannicathe off-the-shelf print juggernaut that fascinated him as a child.
“The bright, pro-social view of human nature that inspired Wikipedia may be old-fashioned in these cynical times,” he wrote in his book. “But I will insist that it is true.”
Because Big Think shares his belief that today’s fragmented media is capable of more than just a virtual vortex of hostility, we were eager to chat with Wells about our shared interests: the virtues of neutrality, the potential transformations of social media, antidotes to poisons, the potential of artificial intelligence, and much more.
Think big: You’ve described yourself as a “pathological optimist” – do you think this is the trait that most defines you as an innovator?
Jimmy Wales: I think that’s the most defining trait for me, it’s definitely a big part of who I am and how I relate to the world. I believe that in order to make progress, in order to innovate, you have to operate on the basic “benevolent world” premise – that it is indeed possible to succeed. Of course, the reason I say “satisfactory” is because I know I can have blind spots around problems, because I tend to think everything is fine, so I like working with a team of people including a few who are better at worrying than me!
Think big: Do we have to exercise trust – and exercise it like a muscle – to ensure that humanity is more trusting than cruel?
Jimmy Wales: Yes, although I’m not sure I like the “like a muscle” analogy in this context. Fundamentally, we have to choose trust for rational reasons – whether because it’s a good bet or because trust begets trust, and as a society we need to build a culture where trust matters. In the sense that this is similar to muscles, but the muscles do not choose, but rather the human mind chooses.
You cannot build a successful organization on a swamp of mistrust.
Think big: In your view, who are the historical business visionaries who best understood the value of trust?
Jimmy Wales: Interestingly, I think a large number of them did and do. You cannot build a successful organization on a swamp of mistrust. You have to find people you can trust, and lead them in a way that makes them trust you. This doesn’t mean people have to be perfect all the time, I know I’m not. It is a guarantee that you will mean what you say, and do what you have to do.
Think big: Here at Big Think, we strive to be “curious, thoughtful, open and constructive.” Is there anything missing?
Jimmy Wales: I think that’s a nice summary of a great situation. For me, the most powerful pillar there, because I think it is the foundation for others, is being “thoughtful.” The critical need to succeed intellectually and in every other sense is to focus the mind and…think.
Think big: Is it appropriate to return to neutrality, or is the wave of media technology sweeping us relentlessly towards partisanship?
Jimmy Wales: I think the general public longs for neutrality in the media in a really profound way. I now believe that a very short-sighted view of “engagement metrics” misleads many media outlets and leads to unsustainable destruction of their brand value in the long term. Yes, screaming and inflammatory headlines may get you more clicks today — but if you make people less likely to feel like you’re there to give them clear, factual information, you become extremely vulnerable to disruption.
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To express a tone of optimism and suggest a way out of the morass of social media fever, (you can) cite Franklin D. Roosevelt. “It makes sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it honestly and try another method. But above all, try something.”
Think big: What experimental approach to social media currently interests you?
Jimmy Wales: I have a pilot project that a few people are working on, and we’re exploring a system where posts in your feed can be prioritized not based on engagement or virality, but based on the judgments of the most trusted members of the community. It’s not something I’ve been promoting too hard, because it’s very much a work in progress and I want to try to do it right. But people can definitely check it out on https://trustcafe.io/
Think big: What potential AI-based innovation makes you most excited?
Jimmy Wales: I’m so excited about all of it. Of course we all know the amazing results, benefits and potential pitfalls of large language models. But I think a lot of the general public hasn’t really focused on the amazing advances that are happening in science. My friend Demis Hassabis from DeepMind recently won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for the work he and his team at DeepMind did on AlphaFold, a real breakthrough in protein biology. This would save millions of lives in the next decade, and improve the quality of life for millions more. It cannot be ignored.
Think big: Which AI application seems to you most likely to hit a dead end?
Jimmy Wales: I think it’s too early to know. It seems clear lately that large linguistic models have hit a wall, at least temporarily in terms of measurement. For a while, it seemed that using more computing for more data led to consistent and robust improvements. But the latest versions of the improved models have been incrementally better at best. There seems to be a need for another set of deliverables, and I see a lot of excitement and experimentation in the open source world around that. But it is too early to call it a “dead end”!
A good thing a lot of people can do is ditch places online that aren’t working for you.
Think big: Is there anything to be said about the author’s theory of innovation, or are the days of the lone genius already over?
Jimmy Wales: I think this is as true or not as true as it used to be. It’s important not to ignore the lone genius’s efforts in moving things forward, but the “ha” hack is often actually something relatively small that relies on a lot of near misses and work to get to that point.
Think big: What’s one simple thing we can do to convince more people to embrace Wikipedia’s “assume good faith” principle and turn toxicity into civility?
Jimmy Wales: What I like to do is remind people how they treat each other in real life, and how they treat each other. Most people find that most people are basically quite nice people. It is basically the world of the Internet, the worlds of politics and the culture wars that have become toxic.
For me, one of the best things I’ve ever done for my happiness and goodwill toward humanity was to remove my Twitter/X login from my phone. I’m canceling it entirely except that it’s currently serving as a useful streaming channel, and I have a few friends there and don’t want to lose touch with them. Other than that, a good thing a lot of people can do is ditch places online that aren’t working for you.
Think big: What essential leadership qualities do aspiring innovators need to turn the next “crazy idea” into reality, when percentages tell us that failure is the most likely outcome?
Jimmy Wales: I listen. Seriously: enjoy. That way, even if it doesn’t work out, you had a great time trying, and you’ll be open to the next thing that comes along too.
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